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1Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:44 am

t3st3rd3ck

t3st3rd3ck
Administrator
This message will be a global announcement for 7 days before being moved to a post on suggestions.

A lot of you have contacted me on DN with ideas for the ban list. We are interested in hearing your thoughts. The first banlist was thrown together quickly and we always planned to go back and refine it. Our qualifications for ban list are "cards/sets that break the game"

If you need a refresher our current ban list is

-Six samurai
-Inzector
-Lightsworn
-Dark world
-Burn
-Exodia
-Instant Win Conditions

in addition we have the 7 card rule. That is seven cards of these combined four groups (m,s,or t) in your deck and extra deck cannot be used in a Dorm wars, Tournament (unless says otherwise), Gamble Game, or any League match.

We are also adding single cards not allowed in the deck at all (cards that the 7 card rule does not apply to) (Example: Right now Quasar and Hornet are up for debate as a card not allowed in Dorm wars, tournamnets etc.)

If you want to remove a set from the banlist, REPLY HERE.
If you want to add something, REPLY HERE.

If you reply here your voice will be heard.



Last edited by t3st3rd3ck on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:46 am; edited 1 time in total



Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) 12Qzu

2Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:03 pm

d2time

d2time
New Member
But I love Quasar!!!

3Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:57 pm

Light Of Judgment

Light Of Judgment
New Member
I agree with d2, I don't think it is necessary to ban quasar.Or light sworns for that matter.
I would like to suggest dinorabbit for the banned list, and possibly exodia.

I'm gonna have to start making a new side deck.
Most of my SD is devoted to breaking the decks listed above.

4Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:15 pm

Twio12

Twio12
New Member
Ok dino-rabbit should definitely not be banned. Just because it's a good deck, doesn't mean it's broken. In my opinion, the lightsworn ban should be extended to include chaos dragons, and windups could potentially be up there too (as soon as they start looping you're f*cked). I strongly feel that Sephylon the Ultimate Timelord should be banned outright. Anything that can single-handedly allow you to come back from 800 LP while your opponent has Royal Decree, Secret Village of the Spellcasters and a 4000 ATK Dark Magician, AND do it with a OTK, should be banned.

5Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:41 pm

t3st3rd3ck

t3st3rd3ck
Administrator
Forgot to mention, Exodia and all other methods of instant win are on the banlist, along with Burn decks and mill out.



Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) 12Qzu

6Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:54 pm

Light Of Judgment

Light Of Judgment
New Member
I do not agree with Twio on this matter. Banning Sephylon is a terrible injustice to a pretty inoffensive card.
As for DinoRabbit my problem with him is the fact that it allows the summon of Laggia virtually without cost.
In order to kill Laggia your opponent would generally have to use at least 2 cards. Now couple this with the fact that Troll face of the underworld is likely to show up soon to send a Leviair chock full of DinoRabbit your way.
Because of the way the DR deck is structured: there is usually no need to bother with other monsters other than DR Troll face and the materials for their xyzs. This means that DR decks are filled with powerful traps.
All this together gives nearly complete hand and field superiority to your opponent.
Plus there is very little one can do in the way of side decks against DR.

In conclusion i recommend the following to be added to the banned list:
DinoRabbit
Hieratic dragons
Wind-Ups

7Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:46 am

`FuNgky

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ban madolche i dont know i always lose at madolche decks hahaha

8Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:45 am

Twio12

Twio12
New Member
Wow... LOJ that was the longest stream of bullsh*t I've ever read. Sephylon inoffensive? He's a 4k beater that special summons another 4k beater... If you read Paulo64's thread about contructing a deck, he says that a criterium for being a banned card is creating a win condition almost entirely by itself, and the fact of the matter is that Sephylon does exactly that.

Secondly, you talk about Laggia being "virtually costless". He needs 2 dinosaurs, which usually means 2 normal summons, unless you find a rabbit (of which there are 2 in the whole deck), at which point Laggia's cost becomes 3 monsters. But how in the world can we stop the summon of Laggia? Well we can solemn, torrential or veiler the rabbit. We can banish both special summoned dinosaurs with 1 bottomless (or torrential them), and we can solemn Laggia himself. The summon of Laggia is NOT hard to stop.

Also,you're using Tourguide of the Underworld as an excuse to why Rabbit should be banned? I'm sorry to inform you that TGU is not even remotely linked to Dino Rabbit. It is in fact a staple in the current metagame.

Your last argument actually made me laugh. Christ on a bike! A deck built to accentuate its own strong points? We can't allow that! Ban it immediately! So rabbit is "filled with powerful traps"? This is bollocks. Most rabbit decks run few traps (around 9-10) and a high number of monsters (around 20). This is why you'll find it very hard to find a Dino Rabbit deck that doesn't main Heavy Storm.

Lastly, Dino Rabbit is not hard to side against. Chain Disappearence, Veiler and DDV work well. DDV hits Rabbit, TGU, Spirit Reaper and Sangan.

...Hieratics?? Omg. Look at their record. 3 YCS tops and 2 Regionals. Now look at Machina Gadgets. 4 YCS Tops and 6 Regionals. Should Machina Gadgets be banned? Um no lol.

TaBooFied, thank god we live in a world where regularly losing to a deck is not enough to put it on the banlist.

I'd like to point out that this is a relatively serious thread where we are deciding which decks willl be legal for use in dojo activites. Please restrain yourself from commenting if you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

9Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:55 am

t3st3rd3ck

t3st3rd3ck
Administrator
Excuse me?!

TWIO! Be respectful with your arguments! Don't call someones argument Bullshit! Or use sentences like Christ on a bike in exasperation. It's not cool.

You all know we expect better of all of you! I don't want to see anything like that in this debate again! Or anywhere on this forum!

Apologize to LOJ. It's fine to be passionate, but argue respectfully otherwise you do your argument, this academy, and yourself a disservice.



Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) 12Qzu

10Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:29 am

d2time

d2time
New Member
Although Sephylon can be a game changing card, I believe it is pointless to ban it when Lightsworn cards are already banned. The average deck typically has a difficult time achieving the summoning requires and/or having a suitable target in the grave simultaneously. Often, Sephylon would be dead due to its own requirements. I feel, if a player can successfully use Sephylon to its full ability with only the help of 7 lightsworn cards in their deck, they deserve to do it. Also, creating two powerful beaters is fairly easy to stop. In fact every deck has multiple out to stop this with only a single card, whether its torrential tribute, mirror force, etc. If a person manages to pull off the play and leave you defenseless than they should have beaten whether they had Sephylon or not.

And Dino-Rabbit is just a great deck, a person still has to be competent to when with them. The ability to control the field is a skill, I have often seen players with complete field control lose it all due to a misplay that could have easily maintained there field presence. If Dino-Rabbit was banned would you also want Light and Darkness Dragon banned as well? In the right build LaDD is just as easy to summon and even more difficult to get rid of. The other banned archetypes basically play themselves. Six Samurai, Inzector, Dark World ,Lightsworn, and even Wind-Up can set up amazing offensive plays with little set up and are capable of destroying an opponent with very little skill required from the player using them. (Granted, I must admit that Inzectors limited hornet does make them more tolerable).

I have not read paulo64's article on banned cards (yet), however I believe that whether or not a card will be banned should be determined not only by the ability to create a win condition single handedly (or almost single handedly) but also how easy it is to effectively use the play with the current Dojo ban list in place. I do agree Sephylon and Laggia are powerful cards, but in the current dojo meta I think they require enough skill and have enough common means of preventing them or destroying them for them to remain legal.

11Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:09 pm

Light Of Judgment

Light Of Judgment
New Member
Regarding Twios earlier comment:
I meant only that Sephylon, though indeed powerful in the right conditions, has difficulty meeting those conditions. I agree that a banned card should be one that creates a win condition alone, however I don't think Sephylon does that.

As for the virtually cost-less part I was talking about the fact that DinoRabbit (if successful) effectively =Laggia. Now as you said sure you could use vieler chain dis ect. but that's really not the point. Anyone can write you up a list of traps that works against a monster. The point I'm making here is the ease of summoning Laggia with a single card. One that once established would take at least 2 to dislodge.

Now about Tour Guide, I would like to refer your attention to the Yugioh wikia. There it is stated that DinoRabbit is also known as Guide Rabbit. The first sentence tells us: "..focuses on using "Rescue Rabbit" and "Tour Guide from the Underworld" .."
It also mentions its heavy reliance on traps.

Finally, my opinions on this subject are MY opinions. I'm generally not one to be arguing on the internet so this is my last post on DR.

Lets try to keep this civil guys.

12Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:06 pm

DengakuMan

DengakuMan
Administrator
Now, now, Twio, that comment was VERY inappropriate. As with all of you, this forum is for ban lists and no arguments... if you refuse to comply and stop arguing, we will repeal the page and decide the ban list ourselves. And some of your opinions are biased, known from dueling the two of you..



OFFICIAL INFECTED DUELIST DORM HEAD
MEMBER OF THE CUTIE MARK CRUSADERS DORM WARS TEAM
---------------------------------
Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Crim_b11
Nothing great in this world is meant to stay. R.I.P my cat Mason.

"Think past the old tales. They are but stories created by your forefathers to explain our departure. Kernels of truth exist within them, yes, but buried within a field of deceptions."
-Zeratul

13Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:56 am

Twio12

Twio12
New Member
How am I biased? What possible benefit would I get from keeping Dino Rabbit legal? I'm being fair. And to be perfectly honest it would be better if you did do it yourselves, there is too big of a difference in opinion among the general public. I'm sure the admins are qualified enough to make a decision.



Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Adsadad

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14Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:08 pm

t3st3rd3ck

t3st3rd3ck
Administrator
We've opened the vote up to you guys so your voices can be heard. You are biased because we are all biased and it is an unavoidable part of life (assume that's what den meant).

We want input from students, final votes are decided upon by staff only so we are in a sense doing it ourselves. We just value your input and want a healthy debate going.

Everybody is gonna be respectful and make it so we don't have to close this chat or I'mma go momma grizzly on you.



Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) 12Qzu

15Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:56 pm

JustAnotherDuelist

JustAnotherDuelist
GFX Designer
Banlist Recommendations:

Archetypes:

Wind-Ups (They don't deserve to exist. Even if the Hunter Loop doesn't exist anymore, Magician/Shark herp-derp Spam is worse.)

Dino Rabbit (Summoning Laggia and setting 5 cards doesn't take skill. There are many ways to summon Laggia, namely Jurrac Guaiba. At the very least limit Tour Guide or Send Rescue Rabbit to 1 to limit the lockdown potential this deck creates.)

Atlanteans should also be at least limited/banned, but the skill required to play them makes me hesitate to suggest an all-out ban. At the very least, take this archetype into consideration.)

As for the suggestion of banning Sephylon:

Sephylon should not be banned. Think about it this way: Sephylon needs 10 monsters in the grave, which can only be accomplished by either using a turbo deck that mills your deck like crazy, or stall the duel for 15 turns. Most likely it is the first option. Making a deck based on Sephylon is extremely inconsistent, as turbo decks carry an enormous risk of failing to mill their deck (i.e Magical Merchant mills only 2 monsters before hitting a spell.) These decks are either make or break, and because of that their win/lose ratio is unofficial. In fact, they will never be official as they rely solely on the player's luck and possibly the shuffle system. Sephylon is not a card that is ban-worthy since it requires so much support to be able to ditch 10 monsters into the Graveyard, which most decks are not able to accomplish. If they are able to, these decks would rather use the resources there to summon more useful monsters (i.e Chaos Dragon Spam). In any case, how is Sephylon any different from Rainbow Dark Dragon? It's slow, its inconsistent, it is never summoned, and doesn't have an effect worthy of its summoning conditions.

Sephylon's effects are also unusable. As stated in the previous paragraph, Sephylon is best used in a turbo deck designed to send as many monsters to your graveyard to utilize various effects (i.e The Dark Creator). However, these decks typically do not use Fairy-Monsters, as they have no place in a mill deck. Fairies are primarily focused on Counter Traps and, in the case of agents, banishing. In these deck variants, there are no plausible Level 8 or higher Fairy-Type monsters to use in the deck. In Agents, players use Master Hyperion. However, people would much rather summon it using the conventional method and destroy cards on the field. There is literally no Fairy-Type monster worth running in any of these decks, and most likely you would much rather use their effects than use it as a 4k beatstick.

And that's all. ignore the Sephylon comments, they were already discussed in the previous posts.



Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) TYbwMCR

16Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:10 am

Twio12

Twio12
New Member
First of all, T3, I missed out on topping my locals this week because I lost Round 4 and 5 to Dino Rabbit decks. I am definitely not biased towards this deck; those of you who have dueled me will know that I prefer more tactical gameplay. It is without doubt a very powerful deck, BUT the fact remains that it is not worth being hit. Doesn't anyone else agree that the banlist is exclusively for cards that are beyond being ridiculously OP? Yes, rabbit is a strong deck. It is NOT unbeatable. It may be slightly difficult to get rid of Laggia once he is on the field but it is by no means impossible.

For example, you bait him with bottomless. Your opponent is forced to:
a) Use Laggia's eff as soon as he hits the field, leaving him completely open to mirror forces, d. prisons and CEDs.
b) Lance the poor bugger, reducing him to 1600 ATK - at which point even a Jerry Beans Man could run over him.
c) Pay half his lifepoints just so his monster can live to die another day.

9 times out of 10, your opponent will chose option a. Battle phase. CED. Done.

I'd also like to point out that Guiba's effect rarely goes off. 1700 ATK doesnt get over much these days. He's only in the deck to provide more material. A guy at my locals came 3rd at my regionals last week, and he doesn't even run Guiba.

My only suggestion to keep Rabbit under control is to limit Laggia to 1 per deck. Any more restrictions would be excessive in my opinion.

Wind ups are a different story. If you dont have a set torrential or a veiler in hand when they start looping, you can pretty much scoop straight away. The beauty of it is that we don't even have to put the whole deck on the banlist. We ban magician outright, and the deck is dead.

I agree with JAD about Merlanteans. They are extremely powerful but he is right about the deck taking skill to use. Again, instead of banning the whole deck, I would suggest simply banning Abyssphere outright.

However, I would like to point out to JAD that Sephylon is himself a fairy. With little difficulty, I could build a turbo frog deck with 3 Sephylon which, under the right circumstances, would quite often lead to a OTK, if I was so inclined. But I guess if no-one will use the stupid card, there is no need to ban it. IF no-one uses it...

Fire Kings are also worth looking into. Onslaught of the Fire Kings makes Monster Reborn look like it should be at 3.

17Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:58 am

`FuNgky

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New Member
also Fire King's bird+Onslaught of the Fire kings makes Dark hole look like it should be at 3 just saying Smile

18Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:49 pm

JustAnotherDuelist

JustAnotherDuelist
GFX Designer
In response to Twio12's comments:

Sephylon can't summon himself. his wording clearly states "and cannot be Summoned by other ways" which dictates it cannot be summoned except by its conventional method. Therefore, you can't summon itself and there is really no reason to use Sephylon in any deck whatever.

As for Fire Kings: Yeah, they deserve a hit, just like how haze beasts need to lose their cannot target clause. get Onslaught to 1 and we should be good, to be honest.

Dark Hole to 3? I'm not even going to respond to that, unless it was a joke...



Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) TYbwMCR

19Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:27 pm

Twio12

Twio12
New Member
Oh, right. When I got OTKd, some guy got out Sephylon which led to three 4k monsters. He may have used another fairy monster as the second one to get the second Sephylon out, but then his effect should have been negated... Must have been a misplay. F*ck.

Imo, Onslaught banned, Tensu to 1. And yeah he was joking, basically saying that Onslaught is worth 3 dark holes.



Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Adsadad

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20Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:33 pm

JustAnotherDuelist

JustAnotherDuelist
GFX Designer
Tensu shouldn't be limited. Tenki is the real problem here.



Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) TYbwMCR

21Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:58 pm

Twio12

Twio12
New Member
To hell with it, limit both



Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Adsadad

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Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Images2d Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Wpfjmag
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22Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:11 pm

Agmeon

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I personally feel like spellbooks deserve some attention too, especially divine judgment. That card alone can lead to a huge early game advantage made up of cards you choose straight from the deck
Also rescue rabbit is not only used in Dino Rabbit , but in Evilswarm and Fire fist which are doing well in OCG-soon to be TCG so I do beleive Rabbit should not go unnafected

23Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:01 am

ParallelNebulae

ParallelNebulae
New Member
Divine Judgment may plus like mad, but honestly, it makes the deck tier 2 at best. For the most part, Spellbooks just search each other, meaning that the real problem card isn't the means (Divine Judgment) but the end (High Priestess). Limiting Priestess would hamper the unoriginal and annoying Prophecy decks without harming the other side of the archetype, which isn't as prominent in the metagame.



"Gotta watch out for everything around us, for the world is corrupt... So I'll take over the world! And somehow that will make it less corrupted. I know this because I am something between a protagonist and an antagonist. Oh man."

~Raocow

24Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:38 am

Twio12

Twio12
New Member
Parallel you're half right, but Judgment Day also searches Spellbook of Power, Spellbook of Wisdom and Spellbook Tower. Also it combos with that level 3 thing which tributes itself to search Priestess and another spellbook card. Priestess on her own is not broken. However, Judgment Day makes it ridiculously easy to summon her next turn. In the OCG spellbooks are tier 1.5 largely due to Judgment Day.

Rescue Rabbit is already semi limited. It does not need to be hit any further.



Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Adsadad

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25Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) Empty Re: Suggestion on banlist (PLEASE READ) on Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:26 pm

JustAnotherDuelist

JustAnotherDuelist
GFX Designer
To be honest, judgment is basically a card that gives you a bunch of card advantage that you have to either:

A) Discard to the grave because its the end phase.
B) Play it during your opponent's turn, making it harder for you to actually play spell cards aside form Spellbook of wisdom and maybe mst, so you only get 1 Spellbook, which is essentially a -1.

Although priestess is one main way to use judgment day, the best that the card can do is as a either a 4th Spellbook of Secrets or a replacement for it. I don't find it necessary needed to be run all the time in prophecies, even in priestess variants.

Note:

Partial Suggested Banlist:

Forbidden:

Exodia
Final Countdown
Wind-Up Carrier
Brionac
Gungnir
Chain Material

Limited:

Wind-Up Magician
Hornet
Dragonfly
Goyo Guardian
Onslaught of the Fire Kings
Abyssphere

Semi-Limited:

Legendary Six Samurai- Shi En

Unlimited:

Mirror Force
Wall of Revealing Light
Scapegoat

That's basically what I think should be banned/limited.



Last edited by JustAnotherDuelist on Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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